I need some opinions here. As an ambitious, fairplay sort of person, I've always been against non-compete clauses, though many pet related businesses require their employees to sign them. In fact, I think most privately owned training facilities in northern VA requrie them and quite a few grooming shops as well. But I've never been on the receiving end of it. During the past year I have had several employees come to work for me, stay only a couple of months, take our classes, get our handouts, get their Pet First Aid certification, then resign and within weeks they "decide" to start teaching classes on their own. It wouldn't be so bad if they stated up front that they wanted to eventually teach their own classes and/or open their own daycare, etc, but the last few people have completely misrepresented their intentions. In fact, the last person swore up and down that they were only interested in doing things "over the internet," never in person and definitely not in this area. "Personal reasons" were cited as the reason for resigning, and again, lo and behold within weeks they're directly competing with PNI teaching classes.... with all our handouts and training notes in hand, mind you.
So, my question is, am I being naive here? I'm used to being a one-woman show and have never been in the position of having to rely on a person's word when it comes to my livelihood. Since PNI is so BIG in size I think people forget that it's really just a small, single-owner business. They say that imitation is the highest form of flattery, and maybe I'm inspiring them to try it themselves, but do I need to start thinking like a business person now that we're looked upon as the "big kid on the block?"
Laurie
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Laurie, I think you need to do what is best for yor business. I personally am not familiar with non-compete clauses but I am sure that it is something that the employee signs upon working for a business which states just that. I work in an automotive repair shop and have done so for going on 8 years. So I have seen technicians come and go. Some have started their own businesses. Such as my husband, but he is self taught/hands on kinda guy. But all the tech if they want training they can either sign a 2 year agreement which basisically states that if the shop pays for your training you will use you skills here for two years or you will have to pay for your training out of pocket. Some don't mind but others who don't have the money like that fact that the shop will pay and that is only after working for the business for 1 year or more. It doesn't stop people from going out and opening their own business but I think that ig the business if going to pay for you to go to school to get training and you decide to leave and take you certifications some where else it is only fair that the business gets reimbursed by the employee. JMO
Theresa
Hi Theresa,
I think it varies from industry to industry. And actually, I'm not even speaking about apprentices. My apprentices pay a fee to learn, just like going to school, so I expect them to fly off on their own after they get their wings. But when it comes to employees, especially in the pet training and grooming industry, it's a different story. It would be dumb for me to hire someone and give them access to all our resources just so they can take them and use them to compete against me!! So, naturally I wouldn't knowingly hire someone with those intentions. This person flat out looked me in the eye and told me they had no intentions of training in this area. And therein lies the problem. You never know what someone's intentions truly are, and that's why most of the other places have employees sign non-compete agreements that state that if they leave your employ they cannot train/groom within 5, 10, 20 miles of your establishment. I didn't want to do that but what's that saying, "burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me." Since apparently all is fair in war and business, maybe it's time for me to start arming myself.
Laurie
It's too bad there are just so many people out there that you can not take at face value.
I do not remember signing a non-compete agreement with any grooming shop that I worked for but I have heard of it. It's a good idea to have one but I'm not sure, w/o spending a lot of money, trying to enforce it is easy. It may be enough to deter the non-legit person, it may not.
The person trying to duplicate and teach what your gym is able to do and teach will never compare anyway!
I think you definitely need to protect your business. It is a highly competitive business. I consider myself a loyal PNI customer and my concern is that the competition will make it harder for you to be successful. I know how hard it is to find quality services and training.
Plus you must feel somewhat betrayed. You trusted your employee and they certainly did not live up to their promices.
Laurie: YES, you are being naive. I have worked for an attorney for 11 years, and I have seen some evil things that people do to each other. You need to protect YOURSELF and your livelihood. Those of us who are honest by nature assume that everyone else is, as well. Sadly, this is not the case. You should have a standard copyright on all of your documents and a non-compete clause in your employment paperwork. Send me an e-mail if you want to discuss details.
Christie
Ah yes well, said person aside since I know the story. I wouldn't hesitate to sign a non-compete clause because there is no way I could ever contemplete trying to recreate what you've done not only for me but for my two dogs as well. I like to think that Cote actually enjoys life more now than he did almost three years ago. In all honesty, I would never have adopted Phoenix had it not been for the education I've recieved at PNI.
I want to say yes you're being naive and I thought about this the other night when I heard you mention it. What you offer is so one of a kind, but there are those people who are going to be looking for the easiest and not to mention cheapest route to get their dog to listen. Mr. T is a prime example of this and regardless of how much I bring up training...it's in one ear and out the other. An employee willing to work for you and learn from you should have to objections to signing one. I would hate for something like unworthy competition threaten your livelihood or your dream!
PS. - IMO I'd rather take a class taught by you than her anyday. ;) I can't get away with crap in your classes and I love that!
Yes, I guess you guys are right. I am being naive. And Jill, you're right, the betrayal does sting. With all the things we do at PNI it's impossible for me to do everything myself. I have to rely on others, which means I have to open myself up, to a point, and trust people. In the beginning it was much easier because I had personally known all my employees before I opened PNI. But now I am tasked with having to hire people I don't know from Adam. I'm just going to have to check references a little deeper and look into those contracts.
Christie, you will definitely be getting an email from me.... thanks!
Janet when I groomed I never signed a non-compete agreement either, but I haven't groomed professionally for over 10 years. I think it's pretty standard now, especially with the larger companies.
Jackie you are the quintessential loyal employee. I never told you but I actually admired you for not leaving your other job right away when I offered a job to you at PNI. That showed me your character, integrity, and most importantly, your loyalty. Even though I don't want you to be a police officer, truth is, you have the qualities I wish more officers had!!
*blush* :) coming from you that means a lot. Thank you!
I agree that in this day and age we have to look out for Number 1. I think you should add it. I can't believe that these people have the Balls to even say they are trainers. I myself have waited years and years to say I am a "Professional Dog Trainer". I have to thank you Laurie for helping me to have the confidence to get out there in front of hundreds of people over the last 3 yrs. I think that it takes a truly honest person with integrity to be any kind of teacher. You have to look these people in the eyes as they look to you for help, which some take and some don't. Then you have to look at yourself in the mirror everyday hoping you didn't give the wrong advise and that your suggestions or help are truly working. I have never signed a non-compete clause in the pet industry, but have signed one when I worked at a Medical Office.
When I stopped grooming, they took the file/address cards out of my grooming room, thinking that I would steel clients. After working for them for a number of years to have them think that of me. I was pissed and hurt. As I learned later it does happen. I think that anyone that steals clients or business knowingly by using misrepersentation as a way in is going to end up flat on their face.
Reputation and quality will prevail.
I have a different opinion...
Several years ago, with my former company, I was handed a non-compete clause to sign. Based on the way it was written and what the restrictions were, I refused to sign it.
Competition is the american way.
Drive through down town Waldorf, MD. There are two shopping centers on either side of the street. One has a petsmart, the other has a petco. One has a Michaels and the other has an AC More. One has a Circuit City and the other has a Best Buy. One has a Staples and the other has an Office Depot. This goes on from store to store.
Quality training personnel and a quality training facility will prevail.
Laurie, PNI is top of the line. Others may try to compete with you, but they can't offer your expertise and variety of classes. Having an 'inferior' training facility nearby will only strengthen your business.
I agree that a competitive marketplace is the "american way;" but that doesn't mean that Laurie should hand out her trade secrets. Competition is good for business, but you still have to protect yourself in the process. Also, notice that in your example, all of those competing businesses are big chain stores. The small business-woman is dealing with a different marketplace.
Sandy, I agree that competition is the American way. I actually welcome competition and I applaud entreprenuership. When I hear of a new daycare or training class or whatever, I say, great, let's rock and roll!! It keeps me on my toes and gives me incentive (like I need it) to keep getting better and better. But like Christie said, that doesn't mean I need to naively give away my materials and resources that have taken years to create and establish!! For example, why would I pay for an employee to get their pet first aid certification, or train them in canine body language, or whatever, and then after a few months working for me they quit, go into business for themselves or to work for another facility, and then advertise that they are experienced in canine body language and have their Pet First Aid certification!!?? Even when I think about it that's kind of stupid. A large corporation is one thing, but that I'm not!
We're approaching our second year in business so this is all new to me and I'm learning as I go. I honestly never even thought about the possibility of this happening.
Debbie, I couldn't have done it without you!
I agree what this employee did was rude and unprofessional. And I'm certainly not trying to stir the pot, but don't most professionals get your knowledge by working at other facilities, leaving and starting their own business or working somewhere else? Industries with a successful product or service have to grow and spread around the area/country.
I haven't seen many of the materials and resources that you hand out. But I can go to the dog scout website or Karen Pryor's website and read/download for free all kinds of training material. It seems to me that to copywrite training material, it would have to be very unique.
Companies that I deal with typically pay for employees to earn degrees or certifications, but require the person to remain in empolyment for a certain amount of time afterwards, or they are responsible for repaying the company for that training.
Hey, stir away!! That's what blogs are for!! :-) You're right, we do all learn from each other, but by the same token, if someone comes in with the sole intention of taking without being up front about it, that's a different story. I think the non-compete clause makes that a moot point. A new employee has the choice to agree or not agree, sign or not sign. In my mind it's similar to a pre-nuptial agreement in a marriage. Personally I could never imagine signing one, but with over half of all marriages ending in divorce, the pre-nup has become pretty standard in today's society. , espcially with all the nasty divorces we see everyday.
I guess it's all about putting the cards on the table in the beginning. For instance, with my apprentices, I am training them with the full expectation that they will go off on their own someday. In fact, I want them to. Them being successful can only reflect positively on me.... after all, I'm the one who trained them, and they will be crediting me for doing so. But I think it's quite different for a paid employee, especially if they've misrepresented their intentions and naturally, will not be crediting where they got the certifications and/or information.
Hey guys! What a topic! AN employee who says one thing and then does the opposite is just plain unethical. Certainly, you are within your rights to do whatever is the industry standard. Besides, the training community in Central Virginia is too small for any of us to create ill will. We all know one another and we can all talk about one another so it behooves all of us to treat each other fairly and properly.
I feel sometimes a little strange about non-compete clauses, many times they seem to me to be outrageously over protective and if the business in question is that unsure of itself, the issue may be with the business and not the employees. As many of you have noted, competition is our lifeblood. But to pay for an employee's education, or provide training and then to have the employee jump out within a few months and start their own business--that's not right, perhaps a time agreement or repay clause would be useful.
I definitely think it important to copyright materials that you (Laurie) have personally developed. The process is not complicated and you should protect yourself.
By the way, you probably know that even RDOC has had in the past(I think the rule has changed recently) a rule that their members that teach at the club are not allowed to teach dog obedience for money anywhere within about a 50 mile radius. And these were folks who were not even getting paid for teaching. I think they have relaxed this rule because I know of a couple of people that are being paid outside of the club now.
Besides, I don't know why anyone would want to try to compete with PNI, it can't be beat!
Brandy
Hi Brandy, wow, I didn't know that about RDOC. I'm not really concerned about people I actually hire as trainers. All our trainers have years and years of experience, and most have expertise in certain areas, which is why I hire them! I expect them to teach elsewhere. But I think it gets sticky when a trainer wants to teach the exact same type of class for a competing market. If I hire a beginner agility instructor, I wouldn't want them teaching beginning agility right up the road. But if they teach in northern VA, Richmond or MD, that would be fine. The same goes for our basic and puppy classes. I wouldn't want someone who teaches puppy classes for me teaching puppy classes for the Stafford or Fredericksburg Petsmart at the same time!!
I think if you are training someone to teach your methodology you should have some assurance/protection from them taking that methodology to teach elsewhere. I don't see a problem with that.
I will certainly support you whatever you decide. Just don't strangle yourself in paper. If all other things are equal (and they aren't always) simplicity and flexibility seem to be the way to keep a business successful and growing. (Now there's a platitude if I ever heard one LOL)
Brandy
Actually, Brandy, as you said, the training community in this area is small and word travels fast when it comes to unethical behavior. :-) I don't think I'll have to worry about instructors. Besides, all of you guys are either people I've known for many years or people who have been in the area for a long time and come with lots of references. This is more about potential daycare staff who come "out of nowhere." Those are the ones who I will obviously have to become smarter about.
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